truth?
ok, I think you guys know that I've grown up in the Catholic church and am just starting to question my beliefs. there was a period when I thought what I learned at Banished was the firm unarguable truth, and now I'm questioning that again... there's just so much that needs clarified! and, most of my friends seem like they're still into blindly accepting their one view and not looking into the other churches to see if there might be truth there.
I got into a few arguments today... well, not really arguments, but disagreements. Emily and me had a big thing on the bus over whether or not you can lose your salvation- I think we all know who had which side- and what works have to do with it. I think I'll shoot out the verses that have been tripping me up:
-Matt 7:21 not everyone who says to me "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.- now this one actually says ENTER THE KINGDOM. not be rewarded, etc., but these words (JESUS'S words) are saying that not doing the will of God is enough to earn you a ticket to hell.
-James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.- explination needed? I don't think so, but ok. what good is dead faith? If you have time, go and read all of James 2:14-26. now, just as it said, "show me your faith without deeds."
-1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? (goes on to list various examples of wrongdoing, adultrey, idolarity, theivery, etc.)- this is the most plain and simple of them all, isn't it?
well there you have it. please give me some insight.
<3 Rosie
posted by Rosieee! at 12:28 PM
3 Comments:
Hey Rosie! Yea.. we dont know eachother too well, so I hope I don't come out as "WOAH! hello.." but I thought I could help claify your confusion..
First of all, I've grown up in the Christian church and I firmy believe what I have been taught is the "firm unarguable truth", but that doesn't make me ignorant or oblivious to other "religions" or denominations. And yes, I do believe it is impossible to loose your salvation. You're curiosity is good, though!
And now to those verses. I guess the one I am most familiar with is James 2:26. Faith=Obedience. I found some commentary about this in my Bible. Faith without works cannot be called faith because faith must work, produce, and be visible. It must inspire action. These DEEDS are living for God, as in evangalism, leadership, and witnessing. Without your faith to back up what you are saying/doing, it is insignifigant.
Pastor was talking about the following a week or so ago in his morning sermon. In some instances, people become so far off from God that there is no hope of their returning back to living for Christ. But, they will STILL go to Heaven. But that is the straying Christian.
Clint has talked in S.S. about the the Bible not controdicting itself. A great many passages it telsl of how your salvation is SECURE. No where in the Bible does it say "And you will loose your salvation". So then, if it cleary tell us it is impossible, then how can it go and tell us somewhere else it isn't? And I guess back to square one, salvation is NOT earned. It is a gift we receive from Christ humbly. Correct? So if it is not earned, how can it possibly un-earned???
: )
hey rosie... okay well that one 1 corinthians 6:9 those are sins... therefore sinners will not inherit the kingdom of God.... i respect that you are looking inot other churches for truth but i am too and i've found my church.. BSBC
Rosie, this is Clint from BSBC. There are many passages in the Bible that are hard to deal with. There are many passages that I don't have all the way figured out. I think the best we can do is to follow and obey what is clear to us, and trust that the few things we don't will come over time.
About these verses --
- The famous James 2 passage. I'm glad you said to read the whole passage. The key to Bible study is to capture the context of the passage, and not take just one verse (like 2:26) and make it say something. With that in mind, I think the key to this whole passage is in 2:14, where James begins the subject of faith and deeds -- "can such faith save him?" The initial presupposition of the passage is that there IS a faith that saves. The question then is, what kind of faith is saving faith? The answer is that saving faith transforms a life to the point that the saved person is continually becoming more like Christ in thought, word and deed (2 Cor 3:18). Now oftentimes it's slow (2 steps forward, 1.9999 steps back), but the true Christian will live a live of growth -- Phil. 2:12, 2 John 5:18. So the works of a Christian do not accomplish salvation. Rather, they verify that salvation has occurred (2 Cor 5:17, 2 Pet 1:8-11).
As for the other two verses (there are many more), I think we go along the same lines of thought. The true believer will live a life marked by God's will once they have believed. Look at the laundry list in 1 Cor 6:9, and match the sin to an O.T. hero. Let's see ... sexually immoral - David; drunkards - Noah; greedy - Solomon, swindlers - Jacob; thieves - Moses (stole a life -- 1 John 3:15). Are we to think that these pillars of the faith have "earned a ticket to Hell"? No way. What we see is that the overall character and life work of these people was to do the will of God. So a Christian (one who enters the kingdom) will live a life marked by God's will. There will be some blotches and stumbles along the way, but the overall work will be for God. Make sense? Hope to see you around soon.
Clint
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